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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 20, 2006 12:14:19 GMT -5
My top 10 would include the following based off of continual high performance, the ability to do well outside of Pasadena and doing well in Tourns. Honor scores are nice but let's face it, Arm I is easy and those can skew a bowlers abilities to look better than what they really are....JMO...
James Long Jr.
Charlie Mills
Myself ( and it's all true PBA)...lol...
Eddie Brod
Kris Boudny
Jimmy Young
Rusty Davis
Roger Banks
Erik Cunningham
Mark Litchen (many may not remember him, he bowled a lot in the 80's and is the only back to back Pasadena City Champion)
Jimmy and David Fields can arguably be placed up there as well along with Jim Long Sr.,Rudy Ruiz, Kieth Hall and Jimmy Paulk.
Now there are some that can be arguably be up there as well once they bowl more years in Pasadena.
Manny Garcia, Jeremy Evans, Shaun Maldenado, Daniel Cruz, John Jerkins and I'm sure some others I've forgotten at the moment.
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 20, 2006 12:18:30 GMT -5
I couldn't only name 10 and I know without a doubt I omitted names of bowlers that qualify... Please don't take offense if I didn't name you... The same goes for me as well..... |
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 20, 2006 12:32:56 GMT -5
My top 10 would include the following based off of continual high performance, the ability to do well outside of Pasadena and doing well in Tourns. Honor scores are nice but let's face it, Arm I is easy and those can skew a bowlers abilities to look better than what they really are....JMO... James Long Jr. Charlie Mills Myself ( and it's all true PBA)...lol... Eddie Brod Kris Boudny Keith Hall Rusty Davis Roger Banks Erik Cunningham Mark Litchen (many may not remember him, he bowled a lot in the 80's and is the only back to back Pasadena City Champion) Jimmy and David Fields can arguably be placed up there as well along with Jim Long Sr.,Rudy Ruiz and Jimmy Paulk. Now there are some that can be arguably be up there as well once they bowl more years in Pasadena. Manny Garcia, Jeremy Evans, Shaun Maldenado, Daniel Cruz, John Jerkins and I'm sure some others I've forgotten at the moment. I said DO NOT NAME YOURSELF.... but that's definitely hard for mr. p to accomplish... LIke I said I was off the topof my head quickly... I had forgot about Mark L., I considered Keith Hall and should have included him... plus, there have been many, many bowlers that had a season or 2 of great bowling and then moved away... Tom Frigon comes to mind... Manny Garcia and Daniel Cruz and lots of guys around now are THE bowlers of a new generation of bowlers, and if you name the ones that are "IT" right now, stats from those in past years could be overlooked. What about bowlers like Lee Jackson and even David Crawford... City Record holders that have not enjoyed the longevity of a career yet to embellish their performances. And Lee just walked away from the game. Erik C is without a doubt a great bowler... James Hickey too... don't forget the accomplishments of Jack Simmons... Plus, don't forget... it's the entire environment of bowling today skewing stats, not just a bowling center or 2... I've known mr. p for 25 years and he's suddenly 230 instead of 215... EVERYBODY benefits from high tech equipment and lane machines... not just the 160 bowlers that are suddenly 190+ bowlers. |
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 20, 2006 12:43:45 GMT -5
My top 10 would include the following based off of continual high performance, the ability to do well outside of Pasadena and doing well in Tourns. Honor scores are nice but let's face it, Arm I is easy and those can skew a bowlers abilities to look better than what they really are....JMO... James Long Jr. Charlie Mills Myself ( and it's all true PBA)...lol... Eddie Brod Kris Boudny Keith Hall Rusty Davis Roger Banks Erik Cunningham Mark Litchen (many may not remember him, he bowled a lot in the 80's and is the only back to back Pasadena City Champion) Jimmy and David Fields can arguably be placed up there as well along with Jim Long Sr.,Rudy Ruiz and Jimmy Paulk. Now there are some that can be arguably be up there as well once they bowl more years in Pasadena. Manny Garcia, Jeremy Evans, Shaun Maldonado, Daniel Cruz, John Jerkins and I'm sure some others I've forgotten at the moment. I said DO NOT NAME YOURSELF.... but that's definitely hard for mr. p to accomplish... LIke I said I was off the topof my head quickly... I had forgot about Mark L., I considered Keith Hall and should have included him... plus, there have been many, many bowlers that had a season or 2 of great bowling and then moved away... Tom Frigon comes to mind... Manny Garcia and Daniel Cruz and lots of guys around now are THE bowlers of a new generation of bowlers, and if you name the ones that are "IT" right now, stats from those in past years could be overlooked. What about bowlers like Lee Jackson and even David Crawford... City Record holders that have not enjoyed the longevity of a career yet to embellish their performances. And Lee just walked away from the game. Erik C is without a doubt a great bowler... James Hickey too... don't forget the accomplishments of Jack Simmons... Plus, don't forget... it's the entire environment of bowling today skewing stats, not just a bowling center or 2... I've known mr. p for 25 years and he's suddenly 230 instead of 215... EVERYBODY benefits from high tech equipment and lane machines... not just the 160 bowlers that are suddenly 190+ bowlers. Sorry, glossed over that part...lol... And I went back and put Jimmy Young in my top 10 and took Keith Hall out, so if you take me out, then put Keith Hall back in. That is true to PBA, the equipment and lane conditions are both doing that... so I try not to look at numbers and just see who's at the top of the average leaders every year, no matter what that number is.... and the ability to score well outside of Pasadena... I know that Mills has done well in Regionals and a various many Scratch Tourns. Jimmy Young with a Senior PBA Title, 5 2nd place finishes in PBA Regionals, 2 or 3 State Titles and Houston and Pasadena titles I believe as well. Kris B. has good accomplishments with K of C is other places. I have two state Titles myself and 1 2nd place finish in a PBA Regional and ABC/USBC Nationals accomplishments. And Kieth Hall had many accomplishment outside of Pasadena. The others on my list, may have them as well, I just don't know about them and I'm sure they do..... |
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 20, 2006 12:46:18 GMT -5
I should have said Top 40... Jimmy Young makes my list...
For consistent bowling and being great teammates I also include Garland Newmann and Mike Fravel.
Don't forget James Wright too... he is a great bowler.
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 20, 2006 12:50:20 GMT -5
I should have said Top 40... Jimmy Young makes my list... For consistent bowling and being great teammates I also include Garland Newmann and Mike Fravel. Don't forget James Wright too... he is a great bowler. He was good but I felt he was limited to the shots he could hit. He required lots of oil to get his 2 finger no thumb delivery down the lanes and plus I felt he didn't bowl in Pasadena long enough to be considered in the "All-Time" category... Longevity to me has a part in the decision making for me...JMO... |
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Post by WineUdotKing on Dec 20, 2006 13:32:37 GMT -5
I am going to have to put alot of thought into this one because there are alot of bowlers to think about over the years. This is going to sound biased, but noone has mentioned James Hoy in his prime. At one point he had the city record of 837 and did it in City Tournament. But that was in the 90's and he is not the same bowler he was back then. I rememeber back when Keith Hall would throw the 12th shot of a possible 300 game between his legs. But like I said, this might take some time for me to put a list together.
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 20, 2006 14:06:53 GMT -5
I am going to have to put alot of thought into this one because there are alot of bowlers to think about over the years. This is going to sound biased, but noone has mentioned James Hoy in his prime. At one point he had the city record of 837 and did it in City Tournament. But that was in the 90's and he is not the same bowler he was back then. I rememeber back when Keith Hall would throw the 12th shot of a possible 300 game between his legs. But like I said, this might take some time for me to put a list together. That is all true wine and what makes it even more difficult many of the bowlers we're talking about we don't know all their accomplishments. Yes, you and PBA know those who have had their names submitted for Pasadena H of F but many of us out here don't. I know some but not all.... But in retrospect after further discussion with y'all I may change a few picks I made previously because for me, to be considered into Pasadena's "All Time" best bowlers. I think they should have at least 15 to 20 years of bowling within our Assoc. I think this is my 18th or 19th year of bowling in Pasadena consecutively...JMO... |
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 20, 2006 15:12:12 GMT -5
I am going to have to put alot of thought into this one because there are alot of bowlers to think about over the years. This is going to sound biased, but noone has mentioned James Hoy in his prime. At one point he had the city record of 837 and did it in City Tournament. But that was in the 90's and he is not the same bowler he was back then. I rememeber back when Keith Hall would throw the 12th shot of a possible 300 game between his legs. But like I said, this might take some time for me to put a list together. Rule of Internet Message Board Posting #1: When putting Top 10 LIsts together, ALWAYS say "off the top of my head" first, then when others name bowlers you should have written down but didn't you can say... "Oh Yah, well I was just rattling names off the top of my head....." Charlie Mills should be on any list of Top bowlers in Pasadena History... In fact, start the List with many of the bowlers in the Hall of Fame and put together names that should be, or will be included some day... that would seem to be the fairest way of estimating a list.... because while I may be washed up now, I had my days... lol |
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 20, 2006 15:39:24 GMT -5
I am going to have to put alot of thought into this one because there are alot of bowlers to think about over the years. This is going to sound biased, but noone has mentioned James Hoy in his prime. At one point he had the city record of 837 and did it in City Tournament. But that was in the 90's and he is not the same bowler he was back then. I rememeber back when Keith Hall would throw the 12th shot of a possible 300 game between his legs. But like I said, this might take some time for me to put a list together. Rule of Internet Message Board Posting #1: When putting Top 10 LIsts together, ALWAYS say "off the top of my head" first, then when others name bowlers you should have written down but didn't you can say... "Oh Yah, well I was just rattling names off the top of my head....." Charlie Mills should be on any list of Top bowlers in Pasadena History... In fact, start the List with many of the bowlers in the Hall of Fame and put together names that should be, or will be included some day... that would seem to be the fairest way of estimating a list.... because while I may be washed up now, I had my days... lol I agree with that.... but there are some in the Men's Hall of Fame from the early years that got in, that would have no chance of getting inducted now in my opinion if it was for performance... So I wouldn't say all Hall of Famers....I realize that some are in for Service and deservedly so.... but to me, some of the ones that are in and they weren't for service are extremely weak compared to the canidates of the last 5 or so years....JMO... |
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 20, 2006 19:24:12 GMT -5
Rule of Internet Message Board Posting #1: When putting Top 10 LIsts together, ALWAYS say "off the top of my head" first, then when others name bowlers you should have written down but didn't you can say... "Oh Yah, well I was just rattling names off the top of my head....." Charlie Mills should be on any list of Top bowlers in Pasadena History... In fact, start the List with many of the bowlers in the Hall of Fame and put together names that should be, or will be included some day... that would seem to be the fairest way of estimating a list.... because while I may be washed up now, I had my days... lol I agree with that.... but there are some in the Men's Hall of Fame from the early years that got in, that would have no chance of getting inducted now in my opinion if it was for performance... So I wouldn't say all Hall of Famers....I realize that some are in for Service and deservedly so.... but to me, some of the ones that are in and they weren't for service are extremely weak compared to the canidates of the last 5 or so years....JMO... I disagree with you on this... most all past Hall of Fame inductees will have resume's that will pale versus many of the contemporary bowlers accomplishments. |
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