I can't access that site from work... can you "copy & paste" the messages on here for us?
We will try.
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Amateur Bowlers Tour Of Houston - 09-28-2007, 11:03 AM
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We are at MAX BOWL East in Baytown this weekend. I hope to see alot of the Pasadena and Baytown guys and gals out. This is a great club and we look forward to having events all over the Greater Houston area!!! If you need any more info check out the calendar listing here or got to our website
www.hou.abtbowling.com . This is a handicap club for averages less than 225 ...Hope to see yall out and having a great weekend bowling!!!!
MrP says:
Yesterday, 01:14 PM
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So what if you do not have a PBA card but your league avg. from last year is over 225, can you still bowl?
ABT says:
Averages above 225 - Yesterday, 01:26 PM
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I do have a scratch division which in ABT is anything above 225 is considered scratch...We do run a scratch option at every event ...we just have not had that much interest from the scratch here in the area..I would love to be able to run a true scratch event...with qualifying and a semis and finals on Sunday if I could get enough guys to get together and contact me I would do that ...I want this club in Houston to be one of the best and biggest in the ABT family ..and with the help of ALL bowlers we can do that..Thanks for your interest and I hope to be able to post a scratch event soon....
MrP says:
Yesterday, 01:50 PM
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That's because you are forcing them to bowl in a seperate division. But anyways, good luck with your Tourn.
To me for a successful Scratch Tour. it needs to be ran like the PBA or SASBA. Pay a one time 100.00 to 160.00 entry, bowl 6 to 8 games of qualifying, come back Sunday for the Finals if you qualify....Have side pots and Brackets....And a Calcutta would be nice as well....JMO...
tullos says:
Yesterday, 02:11 PM
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first of all.. a 225 average is way too steep for just a scratch division. If you want more scratch bowlers to bowl in your "scratch" division then the average should be 210 or higher. you only have a handful of 225+ averages in the houston area and out of those only about 5 or 6 bowl tournaments. you will never run a successful scratch tournament in houston with a 225 division!!! the difference between a 210 average and 225 is 1 strike extra per game.
you should check out some of the other scratch tournaments that goes on around the houston area (Simply S&B and conroe's classic or some from the dallas area). they all say scratch and scratch is defined as a 200+ average. but then anyone can bowl, scratch just means there will be no handcap...
JMO...
David
ABT says:
ABT of Houston - Yesterday, 02:53 PM
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ANYONE can bowl in the scratch division...if you are above 225 you cannot bowl in the handicap divisions....We do have a scratch division at all of our national events at Sam's Town in Las Vegas....That is why I am trying to get the scratch guys out....you can be any average to bowl in the scratch just if you are over 225 you cannot participate in the handicap events...I hope that clears that up a little... and I do run on patterns other than the house at most of the centers here in the area....
MrP says:
Yesterday, 03:37 PM
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One thing to remember about house averages.... they only count for something in that house. So a 227 avg. bowler at one house may only be a 215 avg. bowler in another house.
Let's take me for example, last year I bowled three leagues in two different houses. I had averages of 234, 232, 232 at Armadilla I & Arm II..... They resurfaced at one house (Arm I during the summer) and put on the crap glow in the dark lane finish and everyones averages have dropped 20 pins and some people's are more. They used that same crap at Arm II when they pulled a new coat over the summer, my avg. is down 25 pins from last year..... So, next year, I'll still be the same quality bowler as I was last year and this year but all my averages will be under 220 and I can bowl in the Handicap portion of your events......So how will you like that next year, If I bowled all your events and many of your bowlers are complaining about why my average was so low last year at my normal houses and lit up the lanes when I go else where on the house shots in your Tourns...... That don't make much sense now does it to exclude 225+ avg. bowlers from the rest of the field does it?....
You need to have and use Tourn. Averages only...... anyone 225 and up just bowl them scratch until they get 2 or 3 tourns. in, then they go they're Tourn. Avg.... and that goes for everyone..... not just the Scratch bowlers. I'm sure you are aware that there will be those that will take advantage of their low average in a harder house, then will score a ton in the easier houses, especially both Max Bowl houses.....
Butch Cooper says:
Yesterday, 04:57 PM
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Looks like I am going to start running a scratch tournament when I get there, right Tullos?
ABT says:
Yesterday, 05:23 PM
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I do use tournament averages..once they have bowled with me...But I can see from all the responses we won't agree on how ABT runs their handicap events...I am also a higher avg player (216-224 the past few yrs)not in the 230-235 range like I see alot here because of the easier house shots..and like I said before I try not to run house patterns and I use the highest book for the previous 3 yrs and I also look if they only bowl traveling league because that can change their averages also....so I do the best I can with the information available to me to make it a fair event for all averages...and I guess the Amateur Bowlers Tour name is truly what we are about....a tournament designed for those that really don't want to compete against the higher avearge players...We do have a Masters Division which is designed for the 190-224 average range bowlers to compete against their own average group without having to give up a ton of handicap and in April at Sam's Town in Las Vegas they will competing for a $30,000 First Place Prize...but until I have the membership base here ( Houston) I have to run events with all averages competing against each other...Trust me I have heard all the arguements from both sides, Like I said I do the best I can with what information is available to me...and I am as fair as possible...You can check out all the other ABT clubs in the country and see what we do in other areas that have a large Masters turnout....they bowl the split events more than the combinations as we call them...and I do like the splits better as a higher avg bowler but with the club being only a month old here we are just getting our feet wet and trying to build it to the point where we can do the split divisions more often...and anyone is welcome to come to town and run a scratch event I was only going to do it as an alternative to what has been here in the past...a different type event but if there is this much negativity to change I will leave the scratch events to others to run...Thanks for all your comments and insights Have a great week bowling. And just another note..I used the Chameleon PBA Experience pattern at the last 2 Max Bowl events....I prefer NOT to use house shots in fact I hate to use them... the only time I do is when the house will not allow me to change it..I have bowled alot of scratch events including several regionals and I like to challenge all my bowlers to get better by using harder shots....Like I said we wont agree on how we do things all I know is the ABT has been running since 1977 our 30th yr and we continue to grow in membership nationwide...
tullos says:
Yesterday, 07:07 PM
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the problem is that I have a 228 ave and that puts me in the 224 and higher and there are not enough bowlers for that division in this town. there really is no difference in a 220 bowler and a 225 bowler, but you're saying I can't bowl against a 220 bowler because I am so much better than he/she is???
tullos says:
Yesterday, 07:09 PM
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come-on with it Butch... I think you'll do a good job and have a good turn out!
Butch Cooper says:
Yesterday, 09:23 PM
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I am thinking about it.
We will see what it looks like at the beginning of the year.
Dallas Husker says:
Today, 01:45 AM
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pm me butch, i can give you a few places and things to consider.
Butch Cooper says:
Today, 02:12 AM
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Why don't you go ahead and PM me the info when you have the chance.
MrP says:
Today, 11:21 AM
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This organization should be called the Handicap Bowlers Tour, not the Amateur Bowlers Tour, since not all amateur bowlers can bowl it....JMO...
And I do have a summer league avg. in a PBA Experience league of 208 on the Viper and Chameleon patterns and if that is the patterns you use in majority and since my avg. on this condition is less than 225..... then why can't I bowl in the Regular division?.... Just asking.... your excluding bowlers based off of one lane condition but run a different condition for your Tourns.... That does not make sense....
MrP says:
Today, 11:33 AM
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No wonder bowling is losing bowlers every year... It's the only sport that the bowlers who dedicate themselves, work hard and practice, take lessons, spend the money to stay up on equipment, get penalized for becoming very good after dedicating 25+years to the sport.... It makes me sick.....
