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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 15, 2006 15:55:52 GMT -5
Try to be unbiased and use your baseball knowledge and vote with your head and not your heart.
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 15, 2006 16:05:26 GMT -5
I honestly feel that both will get in. Biggio for sure and I feel confident that Bagwell will as well....
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 15, 2006 16:14:09 GMT -5
Bagwell may have to be up for 3 or 4 years in my opinion, just like many potential Hall of Famers in other sports. <oops>
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 15, 2006 16:18:17 GMT -5
Bagwell may have to be up for 3 or 4 years in my opinion, just like many potential Hall of Famers in other sports. <oops> This is true....lol....too funny...lol... |
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Post by thedoctor on Dec 19, 2006 10:27:09 GMT -5
I hope both will make it in, but I think one thing that hurts them is they played for Houston. Most people outside of this area don't like any Houston team.
If this is Biggio's last year, maybe they could get in together. I don't think Bagwell will get in on his first try, so after Biggio is eligible, who knows.
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Post by spktatr710 on Dec 21, 2006 17:08:38 GMT -5
While living in the North East in the mid to late 1990's, I was VERY surprised on how many Biggio and Bagwell jerseys I saw in those stadiums. They were highly respected players outside the Houston area by players, sportscasters and spectators all over the world. Even in these last years of playing, I still see those jerseys and avid fans are still impressed with the numbers they put up.
I watched an hour episode on ESPN or FSN (can't remember which) on Jeff Bagwell's career the day before he announced his retirement. If they replay it, every Astro fan should really try to see it.
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Post by ihookplastic on Dec 22, 2006 1:37:55 GMT -5
Biggio will definitely get in after he gets his 3,000 hit this season ... Bagwell might have to wait and see how the voters treat other players from this "Steroid Era" before determining if he will be vote worthy.
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Post by WineUdotKing on Dec 22, 2006 8:40:55 GMT -5
Biggio....yes
Bagwell....no due to the steriod issues.
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 22, 2006 8:57:38 GMT -5
Biggio will definitely get in after he gets his 3,000 hit this season ... Bagwell might have to wait and see how the voters treat other players from this "Steroid Era" before determining if he will be vote worthy. Bagwelll should have alternated shoulders taking those "alleged" steroid injections... maybe he would still be playing... For the record, my right shoulder injury is unrelated to steroid abuse... |
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 22, 2006 9:04:39 GMT -5
Biggio....yes Bagwell....no due to the steriod issues. I think Bagwell will escape a lot of the steriod issues and it's not going to keep anyone out of the Hall of Fame. It might delay a few from getting in the first time but Bonds, McGuire, Sosa and the many others are fan favorites and MLB record breakers. They will get in eventually. Besides, steroid use does not give a player additional talent or greater ability to hit the ball more. It only allowed the players to not be as fatigued and hit the ball a little further and harder when they did. I think too much is being made over the steroid use in professional sports with all the pressures being put upon them to perform and keep their job when so many of them were using them. Many are being paid big bucks to play and want to earn their money for the team and the fans...JMO... |
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 22, 2006 9:36:47 GMT -5
Biggio....yes Bagwell....no due to the steriod issues. I think Bagwell will escape a lot of the steriod issues and it's not going to keep anyone out of the Hall of Fame. It might delay a few from getting in the first time but Bonds, McGuire, Sosa and the many others are fan favorites and MLB record breakers. They will get in eventually. Besides, steroid use does not give a player additional talent or greater ability to hit the ball more. It only allowed the players to not be as fatigued and hit the ball a little further and harder when they did. I think too much is being made over the steroid use in professional sports with all the pressures being put upon them to perform and keep their job when so many of them were using them. Many are being paid big bucks to play and want to earn their money for the team and the fans...JMO... perfect... you are quite the paradox of a human being. I don't think Sosa, McGuire, Bonds, Canseco or Palmeiro were driven by anything but GREED. There is no way these pro baseball players are victims of an environment created by the owners and the fans demand for performance and championships. Thier Player's Union is the strongest union in the world and they have had their own hand in creating the situation. Irregardless, the numbers and stats in baseball are the driving force of the game. Babe Ruth and players from that era did not have the benefit of nutrition and exercise knowledge that the modern player has... but, historians and baseball purists demand that the players establish the numbers "naturally". The Baseball Fan is ok if Babe Ruth hits 60 Home Runs eating hot dogs and drinking beers for breakfast, and they are ok with Barry Bonds hitting 70+ Home runs if he is working out 3 hours a day and eating healthy food. BUT, if the modern player is using steroids, which allows muscle to heal and grow faster, then there is an unfair advantage. Look at the Olympics and their stringent drug testing policy. If today's swimmers and runners are faster, NATURALLY, then the World Records and Gold Medals are theirs... if they are found to be using performance enhancing drugs, then they are stripped of their honors. |
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 22, 2006 10:00:32 GMT -5
I agree they should be out of all Olympics and Amatuer sports.
As far as Babe Ruth and his records, lets take a real look at that. Back then the baseball was not as likely as todays but that also meant that curves and breaking pitches didn't break as much. also back then, they didn't utilize middle relievers and closers. Most starting pitchers, pitched most of the game. When you add a less breaking ball with a tired arm of the later innings You had the very talented such as the Babe running up big homer counts. That is impossible to do in todays era of baseball. The pitchers are better, the baseball moves more and the coaches pull them when they are tired and are getting hits off of them.
As far as the pressure. sports is big, big business. We have sport TV now, actually several channels of them. We have sport talk radio with fans calling in to biatch and complain when their team don't win. Look at all the complaining Carr is getting this year on the Texans. I really don't think that greed and money is the end all cause for their use. I think peer pressure, the desire to remain in the game and be a celebrity and the desire to produce for the team. The stars have the money already from their multi-year, multi million dollar contracts. They get that regardless if they perform or not, so why would they use them at that point?....
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Post by XBOM on Dec 22, 2006 10:09:40 GMT -5
#laugh# I think "DRUG USE" is apparent in all sports even recreational sports! Perfect has already stated in previous posts that he turns the ball more now than he did years ago. I wonder if a banned substance is the cause of his new found "CRANKER STATUS" #nutkick#
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 22, 2006 10:23:51 GMT -5
#laugh# I think "DRUG USE" is apparent in all sports even recreational sports! Perfect has already stated in previous posts that he turns the ball more now than he did years ago. I wonder if a banned substance is the cause of his new found "CRANKER STATUS" #nutkick# Steroid use?....lol.....no... It's just changing with the game and the balls of today could be considered "bowling balls on steroids....lol..." the way they hook and carry compared to 20 years ago....lol... I really haven't changed all that much in my game but the equipment, lane finishes and oil patterns have changed greatly... I do take vitamins now, where I didn't 20 years ago...lol...That must be it...lol... |
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 22, 2006 10:29:10 GMT -5
#laugh# I think "DRUG USE" is apparent in all sports even recreational sports! Perfect has already stated in previous posts that he turns the ball more now than he did years ago. I wonder if a banned substance is the cause of his new found "CRANKER STATUS" #nutkick# Steroid use?....lol.....no... It's just changing with the game and the balls of today could be considered "bowling balls on steroids....lol..." the way they hook and carry compared to 20 years ago....lol... I really haven't changed all that much in my game but the equipment, lane finishes and oil patterns have changed greatly... I do take vitamins now, where I didn't 20 years ago...lol...That must be it...lol... Paul Harvey advertises an "OCULAR VITAMIN" on his radio show, maybe you should check into it and see if you can cure the "squints"...... lololololololololololololol |
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