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Post by rjj on Dec 14, 2005 10:56:06 GMT -5
Gosh, the HOF really stirs up feelings! First - Congrats to Eddie, Kris, Melissa and Donna. These 4 are of course deserving, as many many others - but this year is their turn and no one should make this anything but a once in a lifetime experience for all of them. You know, Garland and I have gotten through all the tough tough times with 5 children, sick parents, grandchildren by always saying, there are about 6 or so moments in a life that make everything else worth it! there is birth of a child, baptism (confirmations, bar mitvahs etc) high school graduation, college graduation, weddings, special birthdays (1;16;18;21) and then if you are lucky and blessed, you will have recognition in an area of your life for something you have accomplished - and these moments are huge!!! Nothing should take away from these 4 and their moments! If you were nominated in either HOF then you are a step ahead of 1900 others in Pasadena who could only wish. If you have been nominated, you will eventually be inducted, and when you are, you don't want to know or think someone is out there challenging your induction! I was part of the nomination and voting this year, and i can tell you now, the voting is taken seriously and without the "popularity" thing working. No ugly remarks or said or even allowed at the meeting about someone. there is no discussion. you look over the applications and cast your vote. You don't affect others voting, you don't discuss it. Pasadena to me, is a great association for how small it is. Let's just all strive to make it better. And a word to the 4 inductees, being inducted comes with responsibility that needs to taken seriously. People are trusting you to carry that honor with dignity and integrity, as I know all 4 of these people will. congrats to all inductees and nominees - your time will come!
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 14, 2005 10:57:50 GMT -5
Hall of Fame members and Committee will vote on the nominees and elect the inductees. The names will then be submitted to the new Board for approval. This is the way committees work. The Hall of Fame voted to function as a committee of the USBC Board, instead of being its own entity, so any decisions expenses etc will have to be approved by the Board. This is really no different than now, except, the entire Board membership will not be voting on nominees. The Hall of Fame members, and the USBC Hall of Fame committee will be voting. Usually a committee is 3 members... so, it won't be like the entire Board will be involved. That is basically what I said....personally, I think that is a better way to have this done. Applicants should only be judged for acceptance into the Hall of Fame by it's piers, in this case Hall of Fame members...and to take it a little further.... Only Performance Hall of Famers should only vote and approve on Performance applicants and Service Hall of Famers for Service Applicants....JMO... And the Board members that are on the Hall of Fame Committee, as David said, usually 3 should be older longtime better bowlers (if not a Hall of Fame member already) such as James Hickey, Bobby B, myself and even Darrin Reeves for Performance, since Kris is being inducted, this year, he'll get to vote anyways or I would have listed him as well....JMO...as far as the Service end, I think some of our longtime board members such a Joe, James, Mike Y. and I'm sure some others are better qualified than I am and others to be judging Service nominees....I can easily say I'm not qualified to vote on Service applicants... There has only been a differentiation of nominees on the PBA Board for about 4 or 5 years... before it was just nominees. The PWBA still does not make any difference. A nominee is a nominee to them, and they voted in 2 whether it is service or not. Last year, Danna and Angie were both performance. Any person is going to have their own subjectivity and biases in a vote, whether they have been recognized for performance or service. I will use James Long as an example. He has 19- 800 series. He is without a doubt qualified to be a Hall of Famer. It appears a majority of the voters feel his age is a factor for not voting him in... keep in mind, there is no minimum age requirement, only a 10 year member requirment... However, a majority of the voters utilize their votes on older players, with similar accomplishments and statistics. To date, there is no other Pasadena Bowler that has tied a National Record for honor scores (800's) in a single season. Therefore, every inductee that has been elected has paled in comparison to that factor... Yet, I have not heard Long, Jr. or Sr. complain. It's just a matter of time. In a few years, James will have even more 800's and 300's and his introduction will easily say this bowler could have been inducted X number of years ago.... But, I can see you viewpoint. You will probably always feel performance should take precedence over service. Because anybody could volunteer to serve and be good at it, while many have tried but few have become really accomplished at the sport of bowling... anybody can second a motion... but bowling multiple 800's... that's another story... but, you have served for a year or 2 now... surely you can see how thankless it is...
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 14, 2005 11:18:39 GMT -5
Gosh, the HOF really stirs up feelings! First - Congrats to Eddie, Kris, Melissa and Donna. These 4 are of course deserving, as many many others - but this year is their turn and no one should make this anything but a once in a lifetime experience for all of them. You know, Garland and I have gotten through all the tough tough times with 5 children, sick parents, grandchildren by always saying, there are about 6 or so moments in a life that make everything else worth it! there is birth of a child, baptism (confirmations, bar mitvahs etc) high school graduation, college graduation, weddings, special birthdays (1;16;18;21) and then if you are lucky and blessed, you will have recognition in an area of your life for something you have accomplished - and these moments are huge!!! Nothing should take away from these 4 and their moments! If you were nominated in either HOF then you are a step ahead of 1900 others in Pasadena who could only wish. If you have been nominated, you will eventually be inducted, and when you are, you don't want to know or think someone is out there challenging your induction! I was part of the nomination and voting this year, and i can tell you now, the voting is taken seriously and without the "popularity" thing working. No ugly remarks or said or even allowed at the meeting about someone. there is no discussion. you look over the applications and cast your vote. You don't affect others voting, you don't discuss it. Pasadena to me, is a great association for how small it is. Let's just all strive to make it better. And a word to the 4 inductees, being inducted comes with responsibility that needs to taken seriously. People are trusting you to carry that honor with dignity and integrity, as I know all 4 of these people will. congrats to all inductees and nominees - your time will come! I agree with this assessment. As rjj has stated to me before... there are elections held every year for the local Association(s). Believe me or not, the PBA is always open to comments and suggestions from our membership. We are in business to serve the bowlers and the proprietors. We gladly would welcome the efforts of any interested individuals that would like to help out in Association activities. There are some on the board that do more, and there are some that do less... I ran for the Board in 2003, after my selection for the Hall of Fame. I felt I could repay the recognition with service to the Board. Repayment was not expected or required. I had been thinking about doing it for a few years, and attended every annual meeting and liked it... the Associate Director program was not really advertised at that time, so I didn't know I COULD help out. Once I got in, I hit the ground running. I had listened to my fellow bowlers complain about this that or the other, and I looked objectively at the Board and the way things were being done, or not being doe as was the case, and I worked to inspire our Officers and Directors to "do better". James Cermin came out of Life Membership and the "rocking chair" to run for President, and has done an invaluable job on this transition. I have "recruited" several Top Bowlers to run and get involved... maybe they never would have done it on their own, I don't know, but I am going to take credit for being the reason Boudny, Clark, Hickey, Browder, even Jimmy McLaughlin have become involved with us... I know that rjj saw the difference I was able to make, and she has done some of the same things with the PWBA. It's a little tougher on that side as there is a more evident social aspect, but, both Boards take the governing seriously as rjj stated. Speaking of that, the Initial Greater Pasadena USBC Association Board meeting will be January 14, 2006 @ Deer Park United Methodist Church, Family Life Center (Gym) @ 1:00. There will be an advertising blitz don't worry.... lol Each and every member of the Pasadena bowling community is able to attend and adopt new by laws and elect officer and directors. Nominations will be accepted from the floor.Let me easy your mind by telling you there is 16 spots up for election, 4 officers and 12 directors. The board election is wide open, there is only 4 or 5 existing PWBA members running and only 8 or 9 incumbent PBA directors and officers. That leaves the election wide open for newcomers to run, get in and make a difference. If you are interested in attending, we are asking you to bring a friend. If you are interested in getting elected to a position, bring your team (lol).
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 14, 2005 11:26:47 GMT -5
My recommendations I've stated in earlier posts in no way is saying that the bowlers inducted did not deserve this honor.... for they do....and in no way am I saying that if my suggested changes were in effect this year, the out come would have been different..... I'm was just saying there is always a better more accurate way of doing it as it is in most things in life.
People that have been inducted into the Hall of Fame for Performance, knows the "bar" so to say better than others that are not in. Plus these Hall of Famers have most likely bowled against these applicants in Scratch tourns. and other Tourns. for many of their years of bowling. They will tend to know better than others, who are worthy. Instead of people that have never bowled against them and will never be as good, being able to vote on H of Fame based off a piece of paper with statistics on it for a 5 to 10 min. period and have never bowled against them in a scratch Tourn. or even gone to watch or see these bowlers in action.....JMO...
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 14, 2005 11:34:26 GMT -5
My recommendations I've stated in earlier posts in no way is saying that the bowlers inducted did not deserve this honor.... for they do....and in no way am I saying that if my suggested changes were in effect this year, the out come would have been different..... I'm was just saying there is always a better more accurate way of doing it as it is in most things in life. People that have been inducted into the Hall of Fame for Performance, knows the "bar" so to say better than others that are not in. Plus these Hall of Famers have most likely bowled against these applicants in Scratch tourns. and other Tourns. for many of their years of bowling. They will tend to know better than others, who are worthy. Instead of people that have never bowled against them are was or will be as good, being able to vote on H of Fame based off a piece of paper with statistics on it for a 5 to min. period and never bowled against them in a scratch Tourn....JMO... That is true, but writers across the entire nation vote on awards for professional sports.. such as MVP and Hall of Fame for example baseball. There is no way a writer in Seattle is going to be able to assess Jeff Bagwell or Craig Biggio as well as they could a player from their own city or even the American League. It's always about assessing stats and pieces of paper for a period of time. Many times, knowing someone could be a detriment... lol
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 14, 2005 11:40:34 GMT -5
My recommendations I've stated in earlier posts in no way is saying that the bowlers inducted did not deserve this honor.... for they do....and in no way am I saying that if my suggested changes were in effect this year, the out come would have been different..... I'm was just saying there is always a better more accurate way of doing it as it is in most things in life. People that have been inducted into the Hall of Fame for Performance, knows the "bar" so to say better than others that are not in. Plus these Hall of Famers have most likely bowled against these applicants in Scratch tourns. and other Tourns. for many of their years of bowling. They will tend to know better than others, who are worthy. Instead of people that have never bowled against them are was or will be as good, being able to vote on H of Fame based off a piece of paper with statistics on it for a 5 to min. period and never bowled against them in a scratch Tourn....JMO... That is true, but writers across the entire nation vote on awards for professional sports.. such as MVP and Hall of Fame for example baseball. There is no way a writer in Seattle is going to be able to assess Jeff Bagwell or Craig Biggio as well as they could a player from their own city or even the American League. It's always about assessing stats and pieces of paper for a period of time. Many times, knowing someone could be a detriment... lol I would disagree a bit with you on that....every stat on Baseball and Football is written down for "All" to see... many of the games are televised..... The greats are known by all and the Sports writers follow their careers, plus it is their job to do so..... I thing were talking apples and oranges here a bit on this. Besides.... Hall of Fames applicants in these sports are not inducted while they're still playing... and most are in their 40's, 50's and older before being considered....
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 14, 2005 11:57:14 GMT -5
That is true, but writers across the entire nation vote on awards for professional sports.. such as MVP and Hall of Fame for example baseball. There is no way a writer in Seattle is going to be able to assess Jeff Bagwell or Craig Biggio as well as they could a player from their own city or even the American League. It's always about assessing stats and pieces of paper for a period of time. Many times, knowing someone could be a detriment... lol I would disagree a bit with you on that....every stat on Baseball and Football is written down for "All" to see... many of the games are televised..... The greats are known by all and the Sports writers follow their careers, plus it is their job to do so..... I thing were talking apples and oranges here a bit on this. Besides.... Hall of Fames applicants in these sports are not inducted while they're still playing... and most are in their 40's, 50's and older before being considered.... Every applicant's stats were written down for all to see last Sunday. I agree with you on the fact that they are sportswriters and it's their job to keep up with the stuff, but, many of the great bowlers in Pasadena are known to Board members and other Hall of Famers as well. A sportswriter in a particular town would have hometown prejudice over another candidate... that prejudice may be negative, maybe the guy never gave him an interview, or sheated on his wife or someting... who knows... it's just subjective opinion. The LPGA has a requirement that all inductees must have 30 championships. Cut and dried. If you ever have the chance, look and see the well known players that are within 1 or 2 from meeting the requirements and are not in... some big names. They may be in golf Hall of Fames, but they are not in the LPGA Hall of Fame. Until you are able to define a "number" or requirement such as that to Pasadena Bowling, it will always be subjective voting.
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 14, 2005 12:16:34 GMT -5
I would disagree a bit with you on that....every stat on Baseball and Football is written down for "All" to see... many of the games are televised..... The greats are known by all and the Sports writers follow their careers, plus it is their job to do so..... I thing were talking apples and oranges here a bit on this. Besides.... Hall of Fames applicants in these sports are not inducted while they're still playing... and most are in their 40's, 50's and older before being considered.... Every applicant's stats were written down for all to see last Sunday. I agree with you on the fact that they are sportswriters and it's their job to keep up with the stuff, but, many of the great bowlers in Pasadena are known to Board members and other Hall of Famers as well. A sportswriter in a particular town would have hometown prejudice over another candidate... that prejudice may be negative, maybe the guy never gave him an interview, or sheated on his wife or someting... who knows... it's just subjective opinion. The LPGA has a requirement that all inductees must have 30 championships. Cut and dried. If you ever have the chance, look and see the well known players that are within 1 or 2 from meeting the requirements and are not in... some big names. They may be in golf Hall of Fames, but they are not in the LPGA Hall of Fame. Until you are able to define a "number" or requirement such as that to Pasadena Bowling, it will always be subjective voting. I'll always agree with that... There is always some subjectiveness to anything like this, it's human nature and can't be avoided.....But I've always said......"an opinion can be good... an informed opinion is better".....JMO.....
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Post by PBAHoFer on Dec 14, 2005 12:30:48 GMT -5
Every applicant's stats were written down for all to see last Sunday. I agree with you on the fact that they are sportswriters and it's their job to keep up with the stuff, but, many of the great bowlers in Pasadena are known to Board members and other Hall of Famers as well. A sportswriter in a particular town would have hometown prejudice over another candidate... that prejudice may be negative, maybe the guy never gave him an interview, or sheated on his wife or someting... who knows... it's just subjective opinion. The LPGA has a requirement that all inductees must have 30 championships. Cut and dried. If you ever have the chance, look and see the well known players that are within 1 or 2 from meeting the requirements and are not in... some big names. They may be in golf Hall of Fames, but they are not in the LPGA Hall of Fame. Until you are able to define a "number" or requirement such as that to Pasadena Bowling, it will always be subjective voting. I'll always agree with that... There is always some subjectiveness to anything like this, it's human nature and can't be avoided.....But I've always said......"an opinion can be good... an informed opinion is better".....JMO..... Don't think information is not subjective. One source of information may be more detrimental. Take politics for example, you get your information from conservative Republican sources. All of your information is biased to that point of reference. ALL Democratric ideals and policies are "bad" to you, because you have no source of information that is not anti-Democrat. That's just fact. I'm not judging you, just supporting your take. An informed opinion IS better. An opionion based on unbiased information is even better. Not trying to start a political debate here, just talking 'bout stuff....
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Post by MrPerfect on Dec 14, 2005 12:38:32 GMT -5
Actually, I do listen to both....I just find the conservative media more accurate....
For years Main stream media went unchallenged in anything they said and how they presented it. Now with the Conservative media outlets and Blogs, they're viewership has gone down tremendously, for a lack of trust ie Dan Rather and the forged documents on Bush during the election and he still trying to say he was unbias...lol...Right!..NOT.... It appears that many people are finding them more accurate and unbias... But I'm sure to Liberals and Democrats, they seem bias... it is a matter of trust and beliefs.... this is true...
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Post by WineUdotKing on Jan 4, 2006 15:33:30 GMT -5
JUST A REMINDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tickets are now on sell for the induction banquet. They are $25.00 each, which includes your nice meal. Saturday Feb. 18th @ 6:00pm at the Monument Inn. Carol "STORMIN" Norman is the guest speaker. Kris Boudny, Eddie "EFB" Brod, Melissa Pingry and Donna Wood are the inductees. You can get your tickets from any PBA or PWBA director. Get yours early before it sells out. Limited seating is available.
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Post by rjj on Jan 6, 2006 9:48:43 GMT -5
I will say again, as a member of the banquet committee that this will be a wonderful evening out for 25.00. Wonderful dinner, wonderful ceremony, wonderful ambiance and dancing. There is no good reason not to be there, avid bowler or not. Just to get the opportunity to recognize people for achievements in their life is a good thing. Let's keep making Pasadena HOF and Banquet the thing that makes Houston's HOF and banquet strive to be!!!!
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Post by WineUdotKing on Feb 20, 2006 10:09:53 GMT -5
Another excellent job by the Hall of Fame committee. We had 201 people and I didn't hear of any complaints. I did love seeing the YABA champs be recognized at the banquet. A thanks also goes out to MrMullet for being the photographer. I hope the pictures turn out great. The lighting wasn't that great for pictures.
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Post by MrPerfect on Feb 20, 2006 10:27:26 GMT -5
I had a great time myself... We do have one of the best Hall of Fame ceremonies, the Committee did a great job. I didn't get there until 5:10 (was bowling a Tourn. at Diamond earlier) but by that time all the work was done.
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Post by PBAHoFer on Feb 20, 2006 10:54:44 GMT -5
The amount of work that goes into throwing an event like this is almost indescribable.
We spent weeks working on glassblocks and finding ribbon and lighting options... then the vases and the jello crystal fillings had to be formulated and transported, not to mention set up and taken down.
The Hall of Fame decorating Committee, including G-Man and Fraul cannot be thanked enough.
I still think assigned seating is the way to go... 200 is alot of people to have open seating for.. think about movie theatres... always leaving a seat open between groups.. I think it would be a nightmare...
A worse nightmare than all the phone calls asking for tickets a week after the deadline and on the day of the event... lol ...with seating requests up to 45 minutes before the start of the evening....
lol
It's over now, we have made note of things that worked and didn't work... things to watch for next year, such as where to conduct the toast, and let the new inductees walk in more than just through a door and stop...
Hey, Monument Inn, how about serving 2 1/2" slices of cake and using both $80 cakes to feed 200 people, as opposed to making the chocolate cake be the only one sliced and served...
But, there was plenty of stuff that went right, so overall it was enjoyable.
Next year, I'll be emcee at the head table, so, I am making mental notes at this point to allow the committee the free reign to do all the work, and I'll help out where needed... rjj is the Chair... she'll be great.
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