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Post by MrPerfect on Aug 7, 2006 9:56:00 GMT -5
To me, it's a shame that USBC has had to resort to this kind of ruling......But if "some" people are not capable of being honest, then USBC has to make a ruling to protect the integrity of the game and ruin it for all the rest of us.
But on the other hand, when pre-bowling or make-up... the pair of lanes your bowling on will have less lineage and a faster pace of bowling and this can translate into higher scores. To me, being able to adjust to the lane transitions and the normal pace of league competition is something that should have to be overcome to achieve an honor score. Honor scores are easy enough these days for many of us, allowing USBC sanctioned honor scores during pre-bowling and make-up only lessens the integrity of our sport....JMO.... The down side would be to me, if someone did shoot they're first and maybe only honor score in this manner, they would not get credit for it as far as USBC in concerned as they once did... And that would be sad....JMO...
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Post by PBAHoFer on Aug 7, 2006 10:30:28 GMT -5
I think by forcing this change on to the bowlers, at the convention next year, prebowled and postbowled honor scores that are witnessed by a non-competing league officer will probably be voted on to be approved.
I'm not sure how I feel about this... on one hand I agree... you join a league, you want recognition for accomplishments, bowl them during your scheduled league session... and be done with it.
You sign up for Tuesdays @ 7:00 the scores and achievements bowled unopposed, unwitnessed on another day or time should not be recognized.
But, it does penalize bowlers... Teams bowling opposed in makeups or prebowls will still have their scores approved.
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Post by MrPerfect on Aug 7, 2006 10:35:49 GMT -5
I think by forcing this change on to the bowlers, at the convention next year, prebowled and postbowled honor scores that are witnessed by a non-competing league officer will probably be voted on to be approved. I'm not sure how I feel about this... on one hand I agree... you join a league, you want recognition for accomplishments, bowl them during your scheduled league session... and be done with it. You sign up for Tuesdays @ 7:00 the scores and achievements bowled unopposed, unwitnessed on another day or time should not be recognized. But, it does penalize bowlers... Teams bowling opposed in makeups or prebowls will still have their scores approved. That would be good to approve "opposed" league makeups and prebowls..... That is closer to league conditions...IMO...
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Post by WineUdotKing on Aug 7, 2006 10:39:19 GMT -5
I think by forcing this change on to the bowlers, at the convention next year, prebowled and postbowled honor scores that are witnessed by a non-competing league officer will probably be voted on to be approved. I'm not sure how I feel about this... on one hand I agree... you join a league, you want recognition for accomplishments, bowl them during your scheduled league session... and be done with it. You sign up for Tuesdays @ 7:00 the scores and achievements bowled unopposed, unwitnessed on another day or time should not be recognized. But, it does penalize bowlers... Teams bowling opposed in makeups or prebowls will still have their scores approved. Personally, I don't feel anyone should be able to prebowl without the rest of the team. No individual prebowling.
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Post by MrPerfect on Aug 7, 2006 10:46:10 GMT -5
I think by forcing this change on to the bowlers, at the convention next year, prebowled and postbowled honor scores that are witnessed by a non-competing league officer will probably be voted on to be approved. I'm not sure how I feel about this... on one hand I agree... you join a league, you want recognition for accomplishments, bowl them during your scheduled league session... and be done with it. You sign up for Tuesdays @ 7:00 the scores and achievements bowled unopposed, unwitnessed on another day or time should not be recognized. But, it does penalize bowlers... Teams bowling opposed in makeups or prebowls will still have their scores approved. Personally, I don't feel anyone should be able to prebowl without the rest of the team. No individual prebowling. I agree with that.....but I think USBC leaves that up to each league to decide but if the leagues do end up allowing it,(individual pre-bowling and Makeups) USBC may reserve the right not to approve any honor scores for USBC awards... but would still be eligible for league high game and series awards...
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Post by PBAHoFer on Aug 7, 2006 13:00:42 GMT -5
USBC has not said you cannot bowl unopposed... only that honor scores bowled in individual or team unopposed prebowl or postbowl circumstances will not be recognized.
If you bowl a 300/700 and spared the 7-10 split in the above stated scenario, and you qualified for a 700 award... the 7-10 and the 700 would be recognized, and the 300 would not.
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Post by WineUdotKing on Aug 7, 2006 13:05:28 GMT -5
USBC has not said you cannot bowl unopposed... only that honor scores bowled in individual or team unopposed prebowl or postbowl circumstances will not be recognized. If you bowl a 300/700 and spared the 7-10 split in the above stated scenario, and you qualified for a 700 award... the 7-10 and the 700 would be recognized, and the 300 would not. Correct. I listed which awards wouldn't be honored in a previous post. 11 strikes in a row 298, 299 and 300 games 800-900 three-game series National high series National team high game National team high series Baker 300 game Merit awards
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Post by MrPerfect on Aug 7, 2006 13:05:31 GMT -5
USBC has not said you cannot bowl unopposed... only that honor scores bowled in individual or team unopposed prebowl or postbowl circumstances will not be recognized. If you bowl a 300/700 and spared the 7-10 split in the above stated scenario, and you qualified for a 700 award... the 7-10 and the 700 would be recognized, and the 300 would not. That's how I understood the rule change to read.....
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Post by WineUdotKing on Aug 7, 2006 13:10:04 GMT -5
Well, at our Board of Director's training this past Saturday (that you missed by the way.... #bash#...lol ) we discussed this topic also, and everybody seemed to be in agreement that it was the right thing to do. Bom was glad there was BBQ sandwiches left over he had lunch available for Saturday and Sunday without leaving the house... I just thought it was funny that they had no clue about the article as big as they are and it was all over bowl.com.
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Post by PBAHoFer on Aug 7, 2006 13:25:06 GMT -5
USBC has not said you cannot bowl unopposed... only that honor scores bowled in individual or team unopposed prebowl or postbowl circumstances will not be recognized. If you bowl a 300/700 and spared the 7-10 split in the above stated scenario, and you qualified for a 700 award... the 7-10 and the 700 would be recognized, and the 300 would not. Correct. I listed which awards wouldn't be honored in a previous post. 11 strikes in a row 298, 299 and 300 games 800-900 three-game series National high series National team high game National team high series Baker 300 game Merit awards I missed that post or didn't recall reading it when I wrote my reply, but, those are the scores that will not be recognized. I misunderstood "real man of genius" post about allowing leagues the right to allow or disallow prebowling. Just trying to clarify things. I don't know who from HBA was at the meeting, but there was a WinLabs notice and bowl.com notice. It may be possible those HBA reps have a life not "tied to the internet".... lol
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Post by WineUdotKing on Aug 7, 2006 13:43:35 GMT -5
The Association Manager, the President Donna Hall, Cheryl Polak, and Lance Thompson were there.
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Post by PBAHoFer on Aug 7, 2006 13:45:56 GMT -5
The Association Manager, the President Donna Hall, Cheryl Polak, and Lance Thompson were there. Seems like they should have heard, but it was just released on Friday, and I wouldn't have known it either if you or "1real man of genius" had not posted it on here...
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Post by MrPerfect on Aug 7, 2006 13:45:58 GMT -5
Correct. I listed which awards wouldn't be honored in a previous post. 11 strikes in a row 298, 299 and 300 games 800-900 three-game series National high series National team high game National team high series Baker 300 game Merit awards I missed that post or didn't recall reading it when I wrote my reply, but, those are the scores that will not be recognized. I misunderstood "real man of genius" post about allowing leagues the right to allow or disallow prebowling. Just trying to clarify things. I don't know who from HBA was at the meeting, but there was a WinLabs notice and bowl.com notice. It may be possible those HBA reps have a life not "tied to the internet".... lol Sorry PBA, I was thinking you had seen that post..... now I understand your reply after that one...lol... ;D
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Post by WineUdotKing on Aug 7, 2006 13:47:33 GMT -5
The Association Manager, the President Donna Hall, Cheryl Polak, and Lance Thompson were there. Seems like they should have heard, but it was just released on Friday, and I wouldn't have known it either if you or "1real man of genius" had not posted it on here... lol
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Post by rjj on Aug 8, 2006 8:42:32 GMT -5
IMO - honor scores should not count in make up play. i can say this, my first 300 was in make up play. our entire team bowled, but it was after bowling league one night, and i bowled 300-233-247 for 780. I was not nervous, i got to keep up a faster pace which is important when you have found the "sweet" spot on the lane. i was never near as proud of that accomplishment as i was the 300 i bowled in my league in front of the entire league. there are so many variables during league, down to noise etc etc. I can't tell you how many times people have told me too bad i didn't see Garland bowl blah blah blah, but my reply is "he wouldn't have done had i been there because the conditions he bowled it under must have been conducive for him" USBC had no choice. they sent 2 reps down there to try to find the hole, there wasn't one. rules are set up not with cheaters in mind, but as guidelines for those that love the sport. Remember, this kid is not reaping the rewards for those 2 scores. it will forever be questioned, his credibility has been questioned and he will never probably do anything again. if he lied, this is his punishment, if he didn't, then it's a shame. i hope youth bowlers don't look at this though and say, "well, if you are a youth bowler, noone believes you" they need to know they are backed up also.
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